Vancouver’s Mayor, Ken Sim, is a real Bitcoin fanatic who’s doing his half to get Vancouver’s metropolis council in addition to its residents to see what he sees in terms of Bitcoin.
And his efforts are beginning to bear fruit.
On December 11, 2024, the Vancouver Metropolis Council greenlit a movement Mayor Sim ready to start out making Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
The movement directs metropolis workers to discover the concepts of Vancouver establishing a strategic bitcoin reserve in addition to accepting taxes and metropolis charges in bitcoin.
In my dialog with Mayor Sim, we mentioned the passing of this movement in addition to a few of his deeper philosophical ideas about Bitcoin.
We additionally touched on what Bitcoin adoption in Vancouver would appear like in an ideal world, his personal journey down the proverbial Bitcoin rabbit gap and why Bitcoin can deliver monetary hope to the residents of Vancouver at a time limit when many are struggling to make ends meet.
The Vancouver Metropolis Council just lately handed your movement to make Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
On a private stage, although, when you may wave a magic wand and allow no matter stage of Bitcoin adoption you see slot in Vancouver, what would that appear like?
I’ve acquired to offer you a caveat right here. These are my very own private views. We’ve got a reasonably unimaginable crew on the Metropolis of Vancouver, they usually’ve been tasked to discover. So, it isn’t as if I can actually affect the crew and inform them “You must do that and that.”
In an ideal world, the very first thing we’d do is add to a strategic reserve. The second factor can be permitting individuals to transact with bitcoin with out triggering capital beneficial properties tax occasions and to simply accept funds within the type of bitcoin. Tax regulation throughout not simply Canada, however within the U.S. and loads of different jurisdictions, nonetheless hasn’t caught up, so each time you transact with bitcoin, there’s a capital beneficial properties tax price, which could be very cumbersome.
The third factor is that we begin the dialog and we bust the myths round narratives like Bitcoin is unhealthy for the surroundings. That is all hogwash, proper? Bitcoin is definitely going to assist us save the surroundings.
Plus, it supplies us with an immutable file and it really provides to a stage of transparency we have by no means seen within the historical past of humankind. Having that integrated into our techniques can be nice.
You spoke about this course of of training individuals about Bitcoin on Natalie Brunell’s present. You stated you “bathe them with love and you then hit them with info.” Are you able to give an instance of what this appears to be like like?
There’s loads of resistance with Bitcoin, particularly because it pertains to its perceived results on the surroundings. Individuals hear this narrative that it is unhealthy for the surroundings, and it is like, “Effectively, wait a second…”
I am an environmentalist, and I do know that when you power organizations throughout the planet to do stuff that they are not incentivized to do, nothing’s going to occur. Whereas when you incentivize them — when you construct in a reward system — it’s superb.
So, what do we all know? Effectively, we flare pure fuel as a by-product of oil manufacturing, and if we really seize that and repurpose it for Bitcoin mining, it’s really good for the surroundings. Similar with capturing methane that seeps from the bottom.
Additionally, with various or inexperienced vitality sources, be it wind energy or solar energy, the place the economics typically do not pan out to construct these initiatives, you present somebody with a assured buyer within the type of Bitcoin miners, and the economics work and these items get constructed. So, it is web optimistic for the surroundings.
There’s additionally this false narrative that nefarious issues occur with Bitcoin. That is rubbish, proper? Money is untraceable. With Bitcoin, we’re speaking about an immutable file the place you’ll be able to see each single transaction for the reason that starting of time and you’ll catch individuals on the on and off ramps.
Among the narratives are literally the exact opposite of actuality, and so now we have to counter these narratives.
Based mostly on my expertise, it is easy to show somebody one thing, whereas it is rather a lot more durable for individuals to unlearn, and we’re within the technique of serving to individuals unlearn what they’ve discovered.
You might have referred to Bitcoin as the best invention in human historical past. Might you develop on that?
Our cash is damaged. Individuals cannot use it to retailer their vitality into the long run. We’re on this rinse and repeat cycle. In Ray Dalio’s e book The Altering World Order, he talks in regards to the rise and fall of the Dutch empire, the rise and fall of the British empire, the rise and, as he places it, fall of the U.S. empire. In case you agree with Dalio’s perspective, the purpose is that the cash’s damaged.
We don’t have a reserve foreign money that is ever lasted. We hold repeating historical past. However Bitcoin adjustments all that. As everyone knows, you’ll be able to’t mess with it, and you’ll’t manipulate it. It is a game-changer and after we lastly get onto the bitcoin commonplace — I feel it is a matter of when, not if — it may change how people work together with one another and the way nation states evolve.
You simply cited one in every of Ray Dalio’s books, and I’ve heard you talk about the way you’ve additionally learn books like The Bitcoin Commonplace and Layered Cash. You’re additionally a pal of Jeff Sales space’s. With all of the studying you’ve performed and the conversations you’ve had with Jeff, did you find yourself having a lightbulb second with Bitcoin or was it extra of a gradual studying course of?
Effectively, I had the other of the lightbulb second when my son Mitchell got here as much as me and stated “Dad, I need to purchase bitcoin.” And I used to be like, “You contact that shit, and I’ll punch you within the throat.” Clearly, I wasn’t going to do this.
Then, I began seeing extra of it and had conversations with Jeff. So, I began to look into it, learn a bunch about it and went to a few conferences. My journey was similar to loads of different individuals’s. I used to be fully towards it after which I warmed as much as it and finally turned an evangelist.
I can not level to anybody level the place it was like, “Wow, there you go” and I went 180 levels the opposite manner. I do keep in mind although, I made my first $500 buy of bitcoin on November the 14th, 2020. The rationale it took me so lengthy was I needed to discover ways to use the app on which I purchased the bitcoin. It was all clunky — only a ache within the butt.
However I do not forget that day, as a result of once I lastly purchased it I believed, “Did I miss out?” I feel I purchased it at like 16 or 17 grand and it had run from like seven or eight grand the month earlier than. I used to be like, “Did I miss it?” I keep in mind Jeff saying, “No, you’re nonetheless tremendous early; we’re all nonetheless tremendous early.”
You’ve talked about how unaffordable housing in Vancouver is. Does bitcoin repair this?
Sure. Let me offer you an instance. We’ve got a small studio rental up in Whistler (a city north of Vancouver). After we purchased it, it could have value 17.2 bitcoin. That is about 4 years in the past. When it comes to {dollars}, the property is up 36%, however by way of bitcoin, it is down one thing like 85%. As of in the present day, it prices like 3.3 bitcoin to purchase it.
By the way in which, I am not giving funding recommendation. I am simply speaking a couple of theoretical, if this performs out the way it may. If sooner or later within the not so distant future, you’ll purchase a home in Vancouver for a bitcoin, what meaning is you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for about US$106,000 or about CA$150,000 when you purchased a bitcoin in the present day.
I am not telling individuals to take out a mortgage to purchase bitcoin — very removed from it. Go search monetary recommendation. However when you consider bitcoin’s worth will proceed to understand, you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for CA$150,000 within the close to future by shopping for a bitcoin proper now.
You’ve got introduced Bitcoin, a taboo topic, into the fold as Mayor of Vancouver, and also you’ve stated that doing so would possibly result in your not getting re-elected. Have you ever ever thought-about that the other is likely to be true, that possibly by embracing Bitcoin the individuals of Vancouver will need to re-elect you?
I am not too involved about that. I’ve no want to be a premier or prime minister. I am not a politician, although I am sitting on this position, which I actually honor, worth and take very significantly. However the purpose was by no means to be widespread. The purpose was by no means to get re-elected. The purpose was to do what I believed is correct for the way forward for the Metropolis of Vancouver.
And so I could not sit again any longer and ignore this as a result of I really consider that this units town up for the subsequent hundred years. Am I proper? We do not know, however now we have a reasonably good feeling, and I really consider in it.
I feel voters, residents — it would not matter what facet of the political spectrum you sit on — are sick of politicians who do stuff simply to get re-elected. They need individuals to do what they consider is correct, and I consider that is proper. If we do not get re-elected due to it, I can personally maintain my head up excessive and say, “You already know what? We caught to our values and we did what’s proper.” If it really works out, nice. I really suppose it may work out, although.
It looks as if a progressive metropolis like Vancouver — the primary metropolis in Canada to have a Bitcoin ATM — needs to be in favor of Bitcoin. Nevertheless, the earlier mayor tried to ban Bitcoin ATMs within the metropolis. Was there a response from the Vancouver group when the mayor did this?
I did not comply with it too carefully on the time, so I do not know. I can not touch upon it. What I can touch upon is we do have loads of politicians who will make coverage up primarily based on advantage signaling versus knowledge. We’re an information pushed administration, and we care in regards to the future prosperity of our metropolis.
I feel the excellence right here is we select to have essentially the most impression — we’re extra involved in regards to the steak than the sizzle. If somebody could make an argument on why it is a unhealthy thought primarily based on knowledge, we’ll take heed to it. We’d have it flawed, however I can inform you nobody has been capable of assault our Bitcoin stance with knowledge.
Bitcoin will be form of tough to make use of technically. So, for instance, in an ideal world, possibly Bitcoin turns into authorized tender in Vancouver sooner or later, or if there’s simply higher adoption of it, do you are worried in regards to the technical difficulties related to utilizing Bitcoin? Would the Vancouver metropolis authorities ever become involved in educating its Vancouver residents about Bitcoin?
It is not one of many core providers we offer as a metropolis, so I do not see us taking place the tutorial rabbit gap. We’ll depart it as much as different consultants.
If the business makes Bitcoin easier to make use of, so many extra teams and people will simply hop on the bandwagon. And it is coming as a result of there are lots of people engaged on this proper now.
I am not an skilled, however once I, once I hear about among the issues which might be occurring on Layer 2s and the Lightning Community, I see a future the place that is seamless. When individuals go right into a Walgreens they usually purchase a sweet bar, they received’t take into consideration how they’re paying with Bitcoin. All of the plumbing beneath will occur with out them understanding, and it may revolutionize the planet.
You’ve got performed a handful of interviews on this matter up to now. Is there something that we within the media haven’t requested you but that you just’d like to debate or level out?
Sure, I’d wish to make a normal name out and never only for town of Vancouver. It is for each single metropolis and province and state and jurisdiction and canton, and nation on the planet.
We’ve got to get the training on the market, which remains to be a tough problem. Some individuals within the media have made the remark that what we’re doing proper now’s extra advantage signaling, as a result of now we have the hope of constructing this occur. That is incorrect, although.
We’d like Bitcoin supporters to start out pumping the true narrative of why bitcoin is a sound monetary asset. It is the very best performing asset within the final 16 years on the planet. And we’re not merchants, so when you’re not seeking to day commerce, the entire volatility would not matter.
We have to begin getting that narrative out, however not from me, from the group. We have to let our elected officers know this as a result of they are not going to do something till individuals hit them with knowledge and inform our legislators that they need this.
We’re doing this as a result of we consider in it. We need to get forward of it. We need to arrange town for the subsequent 100 years, and that is why we’re prepared to take political danger to do that. However we’d like assist. So, in case your viewers may help us push that narrative with our provincial authorities and of their jurisdictions, as effectively, that may be nice.
If individuals come onboard and see how bitcoin can cut back among the monetary stress of their lives, do you suppose Vancouver transforms right into a pro-Bitcoin metropolis comparatively rapidly?
Sure.
I am going again to my sister-in-law, who if she watches the video she’s gonna punch me within the face. About 13 years in the past, she was afraid of getting an iPhone. She did not perceive the know-how. It was a psychological block.
Then, she jumped on the bandwagon like everybody else, as a result of all her buddies had iPhones. It is ridiculous now to suppose that folks had been afraid of iPhones, proper?
Will Bitcoin give us hope? Completely.
I am going again to the Metropolis of Vancouver and why that is so vital. The Metropolis of Vancouver exists in the identical situations as everybody else does. Whereas individuals cannot afford a house or they’re scuffling with groceries, now we have a price range.
We’ve got to rent law enforcement officials, firefighters, engineers, and we’re residing in an surroundings the place our foreign money is getting debased and we won’t enhance taxes at a price that retains up with that. We do not need to lower providers, and so Bitcoin offers us hope the place we are able to repair our monetary state, our stability sheet.
And that can really assist us run this metropolis for the subsequent hundred years. I feel when individuals perceive Bitcoin they usually begin to undertake it, they are going to have hope, as effectively, as a result of they are going to understand their buying energy goes up, which is a superb factor.